‘Typical’ Evangelicals

2007/06/30 at 08:56

As I’ve mentioned before, Fred Clark’s ongoing page-by-page commentary of the horrendously bad first Left Behind novel is always an interesting read. In this week’s commentary, I found an interesting conversation in the comments. I think it’s easiest just to quote the relevant comments.
First, Reverend Ref responds to a line from the novel:

Everything he had tried had failed. … Rayford had never felt more powerless and desperate.
And this is also something that is theologically wrong. We don’t convert people, that is God’s job (or the Holy Spirit if you want to get technical). I tell my parishioners all the time, “All we can do is invite people; conversion is God’s department.” This fundagelical push to constantly figure out how many people you’ve saved is, for lack of a better term, whacked. It’s nothing more than spiritual bullying. Our job as Christians is to proclaim the kingdom of God. We proclaim. We invite. We welcome. We talk. God converts. If the other person rejects that, it’s not our problem. But that DOES NOT mean we revel in their (anticipated?) destruction.
Love God. Love your neighbor. Remember you aren’t the boss.

Bugmaster resplies:

Well, what about people like myself, who don’t believe that there is any “boss” at all ? You have shown us the way to salvation, and we rejected it as a fantasy. Now (assuming you’re right), we will burn in Hell for all eternity / will be stuck in Limbo forever / will be separate from God for all time / won’t get our 72 virgins / etc. Wouldn’t you want to push your point… and push and push and push… until the atheists do convert ? It’s for their own good, and you love them, right ?
Ok, this is different from typical evangelicals, who only care about themselves (“I’ve converted 10 people last week ! Woo !”), but still, I’m sure there are some people out there who think that way. Three of them were in my math class…

And here’s Reverend Ref’s reply:

If you don’t believe that there is any “boss” at all, and if you reject it as fantasy, that’s your call (that whole free will thing). Am I disappointed? Sure, for a variety of reasons. However, I will not push and push and push… until the atheists do convert. It may be for your own good, as you say, but so was syrup of ipecac (or so my grandmother told me). I would much rather invite you into a discussion about God and invite you to church, be turned down, and then talk about about the Mariners or Seahawks or the weather and have you remain on speaking terms with me (maybe even be considered a friend), than to push and push and push and piss you off.
At least with Option #1 there’s a chance you might change your mind. That’s how I operate during my bar visits. There’s a whole hospitality thing going on there. Not to mention the fact that I do not believe God put me on a quota system.

And Bugmaster again:

Well, if more people thought like you, we’d have less wars (and less theocratic maniacs in charge), so your stance is quite admirable. Still, it sounds like you’d rather acquire a friend in this life, than rescue the same person’s soul from an eternity of torment in the next life. Some people (i.e., zealously religious people) could interpret this as a selfish attitude.

Reverend Ref:

Um … not quite. I’d rather remain on speaking terms with you. Whether you are or are not my friend, I really couldn’t care less. However, I believe that conversion happens through conversation, which has the potential to open one up to the working of the Holy Spirit. If I push and push and push, as you said earlier, and do nothing but piss you off about me in particular and Christianity in general, then I have helped to shut the door. And that, in my book, is sinful behavior.
I don’t know where a conversation will lead, but I do know that not being willing to converse, or sit down at table or any other words/actions that shuts people down will lead nowhere. Witness my own Anglican Communion and the various behaviors there about not wanting to converse with or commune with the “wrong” people. At least if we keep talking, the potential for conversion remains.

And finally, Bugmaster:

Well, your position does make sense. I don’t know much about the Anglican Communion, but some Protestant varieties here in America also have such an isolationist approach. Pretty sad.

Here we have Bugmaster, a self-professed aethist, who has been reading and participating in the comments of a blog by a liberal evangelical for months or longer, and yet, after all this exposure to Fred Clark and many of his commenters, Bugmaster still thinks that their (and my) brand of Christianity is the exception, not the norm. That’s a sad statement on American Christian culture.

The call

2007/06/22 at 15:09

I keep my resume on my personal web site all the time as part of my online profile, even when I’m not looking for a job. As a result, I get quite a few calls from recruiters. Over the years, I’ve discovered that most of them follow a funny pattern:

My cell phone rings. I see that it’s a number I don’t recognize, often from a different area code. The beginning of the call almost invariably goes like this:
Me (using my sonorous, who-the-hell-is-calling voice): ‘Stan Taylor’
Caller: Hi, Stan Taylor? How are you today?
Me (suspicious): Fine, thank you.
Caller: Is this a good time to talk?
Me: I don’t know. What do you want to talk about?
Caller (sounding surprised by my answer): My name is Joe Blow, and I found your resume… I have a position that I think you’re qualified for…

I’m not sure why they always ask how I’m doing before they say anything else. I guess it must be that ‘make a personal connection’ thing. Likewise, I don’t understand why they ask me if it’s a good time to talk before they introduce themselves. I guess if they introduced themselves first and then asked, it would be easier for me just to hang up.

Mission Accomplished

2007/06/19 at 10:17

According to Reuters,

Iraq has emerged as the world’s second most unstable country, behind Sudan, more than four years afterPresident George W. Bush ordered the U.S. invasion to topple Saddam Hussein, according to a survey released on Monday.
The 2007 Failed States Index, produced by Foreign Policy magazine and the Fund for Peace, said Iraq suffered a third straight year of deterioration in 2006 with diminished results across a range of social, economic, political and military indicators. Iraq ranked fourth last year.

Portrait of the Modern Terrorist as an Idiot

2007/06/18 at 13:15

I’m a little late on posting this, but security expert Bruce Schneier tells it like it is:

Terrorism is a real threat, and one that needs to be addressed by appropriate means. But allowing ourselves to be terrorized by wannabe terrorists and unrealistic plots — and worse, allowing our essential freedoms to be lost by using them as an excuse — is wrong.

Remember, folks, terrorism is in the eye of the beholder. Don’t be scared of something that, statistically speiaking, barely even makes the list of things likely to hurt or kill you.

LOLDOG

2007/06/09 at 08:32

loldog1

Better late than never

2007/06/08 at 09:03

I remembered these photos or Norman, so I thought I should get in on the game…
Christmas tree cat
Christmas tree cat

The sign says it all

2007/06/04 at 12:21

0525_kidswalk380x285.jpg
“Let Are Kids Walk!”
From the accompanying article:

FORT WORTH — Students who had been planning to walk across the stage at graduation ceremonies this weekend were instead walking a picket line Thursday morning.
The Trimble Tech High School seniors marched in front of Fort Worth Independent School District headquarters to protest Wednesday’s decision by trustees to bar students who failed the TAKS test from commencement exercises.